[Nagai] That's right. So, the case of Brazil is interesting. If you're born in Brazil, you're Brazilian, right? And if you're born in Japan, you're Brazilian, right?
Well, there was a time when the constitution changed and people born abroad became stateless, but now all children of Brazilian nationals become Brazilians, even if they are born in a foreign country such as Japan. In the case of Japanese people, if a child of a foreigner is born in Japan, he or she cannot become Japanese. And even if a Japanese child is born abroad, they cannot become Japanese unless they notify the government.
[Fukazawa] There is now a large generation of Brazilians who were born and raised in Japan and have only ever known Japan, so I would like to make it relatively easy for them to naturalize, for example.
[Nagai] I think it's relatively easy for children like that to naturalize.
[Shimano] However, I don't think that naturalization will change the way people treat me in Japanese society. So I went to Japan in January, visited various places, and met a third generation like me who works at an insurance company. Even though I look almost foreign, I said, "I really want to become a naturalized citizen."
When I asked him why, he said, "Because I want to become Japanese." We talked about various things, but he didn't really understand, and I felt that he just had a strong desire to be more accepted by Japanese society.
[Fukazawa] Even if you naturalize, there is no guarantee that you will be treated "exactly the same as a Japanese person." In reality,
[Nagai] However, I recommend that all Brazilians living in Japan who meet the requirements become naturalized. That is because, at the moment, when a Brazilian person naturalizes in Japan, they do not lose their Brazilian nationality. They can become dual nationals. In that case, there are no disadvantages.
In Brazil, even if you live abroad, you still have obligations, such as voting, failing to register properly, facing murta (penalty), and conscription, but in Japan, there are almost no obligations for Japanese people living abroad.
[Fukazawa] I think that if you have Japanese nationality, the way other Japanese people see you will change. If they say, "This person has Japanese nationality," even if you have a foreign face, they'll say, "Oh, this person is Japanese."
[Nagai] That's right.
[Fukasawa] There's something strangely like that about Japanese people.
[Shimano] Is that so?
[Nagai] Also, if you can speak Japanese, then...
[Fukazawa] If you have lived in Japan for a long time, can speak Japanese, and have Japanese nationality, you will have an air of being Japanese. In Brazil, it is common knowledge that "it is natural for identity and nationality to be different," but in Japan, this aspect is still vague.
For example, many of the postwar immigrants became Brazilian citizens in order to acquire land or start businesses. However, they only did so because it was necessary for paperwork, and it was common knowledge that their identity would always be Japanese.
There used to be a naturalized player named Ramos on the Japanese national soccer team. He was called the "playmaker of the Japanese national soccer team." Everyone called Ramos a "Japanese," but we thought he was a Brazilian who had naturalized in Japan.
In fact, when I interviewed him at Toyo-gai before, I really felt that he was Brazilian. I simply thought that I could interview him in Japanese because he was the "playmaker of the Japanese national team," but he said this in Portuguese. "This is Brazil, so only Portuguese will interview me." In other words, he was switching between being Japanese and being Brazilian. So I interviewed him in Portuguese until the end.
[Shima & Naga] (laughs)
[Fukazawa] Koitsu, are you really Japanese? No, but that kind of switching and compromise is normal in Brazil.
[Nagai] One example of a case in which it would be safer to have Japanese nationality would be a foreigner who speaks Japanese fluently and is very familiar with Japan, but if they have foreign nationality and cause a traffic accident that kills someone, they could end up going to prison and be told to go back to their home country.
In addition to that, there are various restrictions in Japan, such as having to go to the Immigration Bureau every few years to renew your card, and, for example, when you are hired, you have to submit a copy of your residence card to your workplace to prove you are able to work.
In Brazil, it doesn't really matter if you're a foreigner, or rather, foreigners don't feel inconvenienced much.
[Fukasawa] Well, things like not being able to hold elections.
[Nagai] It's to the point where you can't vote. But Japan has a lot of restrictions and you have to go through a lot of procedures, so if you can get Brazilian citizenship and you don't lose your Brazilian citizenship, I think it would be safer to get it as long as you live in Japan.
[Fukazawa] Also, I think that Japan is fundamentally wrong in not implementing immigration policies. It seems that they have a policy of never using the term "immigration policy."
But I feel like that is reaching its limit. They will accept "foreign workers" but not "immigrants." Where is the difference?
[Nagai] In the end, it was a bit of a convenient solution.
[Fukasawa] It's a convenient way of doing things.
[Nagai] That's because there are many people in the country who are opposed to "accepting immigrants." That's why they say they won't accept them. But in reality, if they don't accept them, there won't be a labor force, and companies and economic organizations will be dissatisfied with that. So they say they won't accept them, but in reality they let them in through the back door.
[Fukasawa] It's obvious that these people will gradually start to settle down.
*This article is reprinted from the Nikkei Shimbun ( August 29th and 30th , 2018).
© 2018 Masayuki Fukasawa / Nikkey Shimbun
